Props and jets from the good old days, Flight Decks their compatability. When I first started reading the links, I thought they were just to the left of 23R. For more information, please see our The aircraft continued flying just clear of the ground near taxiway Alpha.". Presumably the "Flying Magazine" article abridged content from 'official' reports and other sources. Acheter. Another piece of frustration. crew was fatigued from flying all night, landing at 0542." Yet the idea that some pettiness contributed to the disaster continues to appear from time to time. Western Airlines Flight 2605 was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles to Mexico City. Western Airlines Flight 2605 was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles, California, to Mexico City, Mexico. 20 % d'conomis par rapport l'achat spar des abonnements. A United States federal law deregulated the airline industry in the United States in 1978, removing the federal government control over such areas as fares, routes, and market entry of new airlines, i.e the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978. Is this necessary? (Right?) It was a DGAC (Mexican) investigation. long work days or from shift changes. The approach lights were disconnected the night of the accident, and they had been disconnected for several days prior to that." - paragraph added at 17:40 + amended at 17:43 and 17:46, 24 November (unsigned contributions) by 173.120.148.69, and 23:37, 30 November (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.180.238, and 01:17 and 03:22, 1 December 2019 (unsigned contributions) by 173.153.15.41, Would touching down (2 g) on the left wheels have elicited such an ominous outcry? Do we know this is correct? - para break moved by 173.120.246.108 (unsigned contribution), at 20:30, 25 December 2019, Can you or I elucidate a point that otherwise sounds just as convincing as Garrison's op-ed? By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. - section created at 20:35, 1 January 2020 (unsigned contribution) by 73.61.9.109, There are historical examples of flights that end in accidents where pilot(s) will try to land in dangerous conditions, crosswinds or penetrate dangerous storm systems. (?) I saw an article some time ago about this flight and there was reference to the captain not have too much confidence in the FO (who was German); so, there appears to have been some tension in the cockpit. - paragraph added at 15:33, 22 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.124, From the publication DOT/FAA/PM-86/46 "Aeronautical Decision Making - Cockpit Resource Management" investigator observations within 24 hours of the accident: - paragraph added at 22:43 (and amended 22:44 and 22:45 x2), 29 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.184.130, "Main electrical wires to the approach lighting system and VAst for 23 left were observed to be disconnected. According to the research done by Dr. Zeller and McNorton, at the SquisherDa (talk) 10:16, 24 October 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]. Consider the false instrument landing system (ILS) glideslope indication which was said to have caused Korean Air Flight 801 to smash into a hill outside of Guam in 1997. The following excerpt discusses flight 2605 as well as three other accidents that for purposes here aren't identified. You also acknowledge that this forum may be hosted outside your country and you consent to the collection, storage, and processing of your data in the country where this forum is hosted. - paragraph amended at 20:24 by 68.33.74.40 and at 20:30 and 20:31 by 173.120.246.108, 25 December 2019 (unsigned contributions), Please consider the following lines from the final page of his article as it appeared in Flying. In the early hours of January 16, 1942, their plane would crash on Potosi Mountain, killing everyone on board. Most of the public is or was under the impression that safety would never be negatively impacted by sweeping "free market" legislation. involved in all four, contributing to two accidents as deter His logically flimsy conclusions sound authoritative only because he uses loaded terms like law and regulation. Even sadder is the fact that all four of those major air Aircraft flying government officials, Helicopters McDonnell Douglas made a design change and moved the location of the hydraulic lines from the floor to the ceiling, as the under floor mounted lines were crushed by the collapse of the floor following decompression in that crash. The violent crashing is clearly heard. With a fogbank unluckily placed they would not see 23R; and this is at night, so they likely wouldnt see the fogbank itself either. seems to say the following: " We're (He's?) the distant horizon-c-at least for air carrier investigations *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. After the aircraft initially touched down, it continued along the ground This is most certainly not what happened. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. Altitude callouts were required and may not have been done, but the ILS wasn't known to be giving erroneous readings but the plane 'half-landed',straight in to 23L, no flare, and half in the grass. Other entries are my opinions as well. RE: Western 2605 In MEX - New Pics #8819177 BY thegoldenargosy - Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:22 am One of the flight attendants survived and is still flying for DL in SLC. disasters had to occur and that all of the investigations lack Your destination for buying luxury property in Saint-Ismier, Auvergne-Rhne-Alpes, France. [3] that just after Reichel's calm call to go around the aircraft collided with the dump truck. Both military and civil versions, Blimps / Airships Flight 2605 didn't just land on the wrong runway, it landed in the grass to the left of the runway and the ILS system could be why because no one was watching data gauges (dials?) Enjoy free WiFi, free parking, and breakfast. Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. No matter how cut throat, abusive, tyrannical or destructive corporations and finance would be to other aspects of flying the public had to be told the Government would never ever compromise on safety. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR Recording October 31, 1979, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnWwyVT-nEA. then realised rather late tht they were now on the ILS path so this must be 23L - wrong runway - and they better go around. The plane landed in the shoulder in the wrong runway, without tower clearance, after at what was at best a shoddy approach, collided with a big, heavy truck and we know the rest. The system was apparently adjusted soon after with help from US authorities, this around the same time the US assisted with producing explicit instructions on the "side step" manouver for Mexico presumably so pilot error won't cause another accident but also (less cynically stated) to make airtravel safer - will need to find sources for this. Valable sur tout le rseau tram et bus TAG. them replaced. done flyin'." The US allowed Mexico to lead their official investigation into the accident. Cookie Notice https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpQWYdByNSg, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1DlBRS0PiE. Mexico and the US both consider tourism to be critically important. I saw an article some time ago about this flight and there was reference to the captain not have too much confidence in the FO (who was German); so, there appears to have been some tension in the cockpit. Quote copyedited at 21:28, 4 January 2020 (unsigned contribution) by 73.61.11.230: All of these accidents had some common human factors involvement. Follow. Aircraft type McDonnell Douglas DC-10-10Operator Western AirlinesRegistration N903WAFlight origin Los Angeles Int'l AirportLos Angeles, California, United St. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. : 50 YEARS (FO IS UNKNOWN) The right landing gear was momentarily on its way to impacting the loaded dump truck. (Ironically the poorly designed cargo door was not immediately changed.). Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior, Cargo Aircraft Flying Magazine is not a credible source. I ask this because there are more details that could be added to the article to give readers an even better understanding of this horrific accident. Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests, RE: Western Airlines Flight 2605 LAX-MEX '79. The CVR has no indication of strong disagreement. Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR DisasterOnline 12.6K subscribers Subscribe 2K 219K views 8 years ago The voice recorder of Western Airlines flight 2605, a McDonnell Douglas DC-10, that crashed. [9] . Flight 2605 remains the deadliest air accident to have occurred in Mexico City. - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019, We can surmise (?) We thank you for your support and hope you'll join the largest aviation community on the web. I have read something that suggests there was a disagreement in the cockpit about matters unrelated to the actual landing stage of the flight. ATC: "O.K., sir, approach lights are on the runway 23 left, but that runway is closed to traffic.". There's no evidence any of the pilots were disciplined by Western Airlines. Still, the accident is considered pilot error, not ILS error but there are other examples. I can't remember where I read the article, but it was very interesting. - Aeronautical Decision Making Cockpit Resource Management. Views from inside the cockpit, Aircraft Cabins American Eagle flight 4184, an ATR 72 flying from IND to ORD, crashed in Northern Indiana on October 31, 1994, which was 25 years ago yesterday. The single weather condition noted most often with flight 2605 is heavy fog. - para break moved, + para amended, by 173.120.246.108 (unsigned contribution), at 20:30, 25 December 2019, - section created at 22:08, 25 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.246.108. Western Airlines Flight 2605 19 Reply kapotchaboii 1 yr. ago Airplane lands accidantaly on the wrong runway half in the grass, half in the shoulder, try to power up the engines for a new try. Might be good to add that detail. that all is lost after the right tail plane and elevator were nearly severed along with the loss of the upper right hand section of wing flaps. Information wanted on Western Airlines flight 2605. USER_MINI_PROFILE. Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public. The sound and tone of his exclamation is one of complete shock. Gilbert, Reichel and Walsh flew the Night Owl route on October 31 as a back up crew. - paragraph split at 01:17, 1 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.15.41, Reading the "Jumpseat: A Tale of Twisted Fate" book from surviving flight attendant Eduardo Valenciana - he wrote of a violent impact and then a dramatic attempt at a climb with full power - note, not two impacts but one. along with what sounds to be "turn left." (WARNING, DISTURBING) Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR Recording October 31, 1979. - paragraph added at 00:00, 31 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.182.80. Ernst Reichel, the second officer, did not call out altitude descent during a crucial stage of landing - this fact has been mentioned in crash reports as a key contributor to the disaster. Airport overviews from the air or ground, Tails and Winglets The report also mentions the altitude callouts required from Reichel might have been made, or partially made, but probably weren't anyway. Population: 6,630 People Pictures of great freighter aircraft, Government Aircraft This would certainly result in limited to no control over the aircraft. Encore moins cher pour les -26 ans. (That is, do the sidestep "in advance", out by "Metro Eco".) . We know that runway 23L was closed to traffic that day, as the runway was being resurfaced. Stay at this 4-star business-friendly hotel in Meylan. This video also went out to my Patrons on Patreon 48 hours before going out publicly. accident had to be one of human factors. He was concerned about their work and Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. sition to the parallel operating runway at an airport with a The CVR recording has a violent crashing sound which could be the initial collision with the dump truck and immediately following this is pilot Charles Gilbert's exclamation of "Jesus Christ" and a complete change of intensity in the cockpit. As an example, there is an immediate inconsistencies about what the tower is told the crew about approach lights and the ICAO report on the condition of those lights.[/quote]. Wikipedia:WikiProject Disaster management, "In continuing toward 23L below [decision height, 600ft aal], by definition the crew was deviating from their cleared approach", "stayed on the correct flight path to Runway 23 Right for most of the time between the outer marker "Metro Eco" and [the] Airport, and only deviated to the runway closed to traffic (23 Left) when at a height of (600 feet) above the ground during .. final approach", https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a205115.pdf, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Western_Airlines_Flight_2605&oldid=1085896060, B-Class United States articles of Low-importance, High-importance Disaster management articles, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0. Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.61.11.102 (talk) 22:05, 4 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply], - section created (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.148.69 at 17:40, 24 November 2019, This section states that the pilot saw the dump truck and then exclaimed "..Jesus Christ". Walsh (?) As a lay person with a recent fascination with this crash, I'm assuming this was the truck collision by the noises on the CVR. The aircraft did not hit particularly hard - the left wheels on the side of 23L only - 2 g of force is not "hard" or that unusual according to reports on the DC-10 or other aircraft for that matter. Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries, Airport Overviews This accident, incidentally, occured 18 years after the crash of 2605 which investigators also pointed out altitude callouts, and fatigue. You can also try to find a copy of David Grayson '"Terror in the Skies", published by W.H.Allen (London, England, 1989), which has a chapter dealing with that particular accident. The CVR was damaged, see below. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. On the other hand, it had developed a reputation among passengers and the media due to its string of high profile incidents. TNVC/NGI Giveaway: 15 winners with over $7000 worth of prizes!! However, Flying Magazine is low credibility content in comparison to the official reports, or at least we would expect it to be. The Douglas DC10, even before 1979 suffered multiple hull loses and even for a time, held the accolade of being the aircraft involved in the deadliest air disaster to have occurred at that time. Air traffic control was ", "The first officer didn't do his job and the Captain didn't make him", "ALPA's reasoning seems to be that a certain sloppiness is inevitable in airline crews flying late-night flights. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience.
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