david and kate bagby obituary

Plus, special edition NP Platformed and First Reading newsletters and virtual events. The Bagbys have stepped back from their involvement in organizations dealing with similar murder cases those supporting parents whose children were murdered. David Bagby wouldnt mind a trip back to Newfoundland, but said his wife has more emotions about the subject and they likely wont return. Well never understand how anybody can ignore the fact that murderers are dangerous, he said. Share this memorial using social media sites or email. Most people do something useful. Privacy Policy and Tragedy, doubled. Turner was wearing a black dress, carried a bouquet of red roses and had two suicide notes on her. On Aug. 18, 2003, while awaiting extradition to the U.S. on a charge of murdering Andrew, Turner jumped into the waters of Conception Bay South with her 13-month-old son strapped to her in a murder-suicide. My fear is most judges would have done what weve heard them do many times invoke presumption of innocence and say, Sorry, we have to interfere with this accuseds life as little as possible.. Its been years since David Bagby has had a call from a reporter and its on a day when he would be inclined not to answer the phone. Family members linked to this person will appear here. 5 Trees, Flowers, or Condolences have been shared with support of David's family -, 2023 Elias Funeral Home. We wanted to do what we could to help Zachary, David Bagby said. You can absorb it and carry on. David R. Bagby, 64 of Statesville, NC and formerly of Streator passed away Wednesday (January 5, 2022) at the Gordon Hospice Home in Statesville, NC. The Bagbys have done their best to resume life in California. On 10 July 2001, less than a year into her ten-year contract with Trimark, Turner left their Sac City clinic and moved to Council Bluffs, Iowa, where she was hired by Alegent Health System of Omaha, Nebraska. Turner received her undergraduate degree from Memorial University in May 1994; four years later, she earned her medical degree. The media interest in the story may have waned some, but their loss is never-ending. "He was beautiful," Kate . Please ensure you have given Find a Grave permission to access your location in your browser settings. We just want as many people as possible to know this story, the documentary, for the practical reasons in my fantasies, I suppose some judge, some place, actually gets it and denies bail to somebody who could kill again, said David. I dont understand how that can be ignored.. In October 2006, Winnipeg-based coroner Peter Markesteyn released the Turner Review and Investigation, which concluded that Zachary's death was preventable and criticised Newfoundland and Labrador's social services system for failing to protect the child from his mother, stating, "Nowhere did I find any ongoing assessment of the safety needs of the children." During a 1999 residency at a family practice in St. John's, Turner's professionalism drew harsh criticism by her supervising physician, who stated she would become "quite hostile, yelling, crying, and accusing me of treating her unfairly." You need a Find a Grave account to continue. After high school, he served in the United States Army during the Korean Conflict, He later went on the Honor Flight to Washington D.C. and was so proud to be accompanied by his granddaughter Jill. One contains the remains of their son, Dr. Andrew Bagby. Enter your email below to receive a grief support message from us each day for a year. Markesteyn, Peter H.; Day, David C. (September 2006). Andrews later said that the law "gives [the Bagbys] some sense that someone has heard their cries so this will not happen again, to change the law to make sure something this tragic will never happen again. Messages run for up to one year and you On Dec. 15, 2010, parliament amended the Canadian criminal code to allow individuals charged with a serious crime to be held without bail in the event they might pose a threat to someone 18 or younger. Liberal MP Scott Andrews and Liberal Sen. Tommy Banks were moved. We will review the memorials and decide if they should be merged. We couldnt actually believe shed (harm Zachary), but we consciously feared she could do that, he said. Use Escape keyboard button or the Close button to close the carousel. david and kate bagby obituaryconnie stevens forever spring official site // Image call The potential tag locations involve lifting the entire cooktop or the burners garments requiring special if. Andrew had broken off the relationship, and at the time of his murder,Turnerwas living in Iowa, but visiting Pennsylvania regularly, where Andrew was a resident at a local hospital. Authorities later determined his former lover Dr. Shirley Turner,. During second reading of Bill C-464 in April 2010, Banks said the proposed changes may seem innocuous, but they may be enough to cause judges to look a little more carefully at the children involved or affected by a bail hearing.. He and his wife invited us to their place for dinner, and they had this sweet little girl, she was 9 or 10 at the time. David Bagby Dance With the Devil: A Memoir of Murder and Loss Paperback - August 4, 2015 by David Bagby (Author) 484 ratings See all formats and editions Kindle $11.99 Read with Our Free App Audiobook $0.00 Free with your Audible trial Paperback $15.99 13 Used from $2.99 24 New from $13.31 Audio CD $19.46 2 New from $19.46 Kate, who is six years older than David and had been married before, was ready to get married again and start a family, while David was not at that point in his life. Later, a Derry resident reported having seen Bagby's Toyota Corolla parked next to Turner's RAV4 ten minutes after Bagby made his last phone call to Simpson and the Corolla parked alone the following morning. A passer-by claimed to have seen Turners SUV next to Bagbys Toyota Corolla at 6.10 p.m. Its been more than 10 years since the Bagbys have been back to Newfoundland and Labrador. I thought you might like to see a memorial for Dr. Andrew David Bagby I found on Findagrave.com. Turner first purchased her prescription of lorazepam from a St. John's pharmacy. David Russell Bagby, 64, of Statesville, passed away Wednesday, Jan. 5, 2022. But Pleasant Valley turned over records for Idaho case, 3 killed, 1 wounded in Philadelphia shooting; 2 teens in custody, Hersheys chocolate comes full circle on Pennsylvania dairy farm. That gave her a chance to do something useful for some people who needed it, said David. Its hard carrying this big boulder on your back the rest of your life. Beloved wife of David Bagley. Sister of Maisie. The committee passed the bill unanimously, which is how it came to be heard in the House for a final vote this week. Becoming a Find a Grave member is fast, easy and FREE. They also went to Ottawa to push the case for Bill C-464, which had been introduced by then Liberal MP Scott Andrews, at a committee hearing. Despite the evidence gathered, Turner had fled the country by the time authorities obtained a warrant for her arrest. Turner later drove home and left a message on Bagby's answering machine. We need each other, have each other to get through this, added David. There are no volunteers for this cemetery. Curated newsletters for curious minds. Your Scrapbook is currently empty. "[2]:454, Turner was returned to jail in November 2002 pending a decision by the federal justice minister regarding whether she should be extradited to the United States. GREAT NEWS! The case led to a critical overview of Newfoundland's legal and child welfare systems as well as Canada's bail laws. Markesteyn specifically cited poor communication between social services officials, who worked on the presumption of Turner's innocence throughout the case and became more concerned for her welfare than for Zachary's. Get email updates from your favourite authors. On Aug. 13, 2003, Shirley Turner, still fighting extradition, took Zachary to Conception Bay. She could be charming[,] friendly and lively but when caught in an untruth she would become angry, accusatory and loud. On 3 November 2001, Turner confessed that she had been lying about her pregnancy in an effort to remain with Bagby permanently. The other, their grandson, Zachary Turner. Theyve had the conversation over the years about how they feel about the place where they made good friends, but that is tied forever to their family tragedy. [9] David and Kathleen Bagby moved to St. John's, Newfoundland, in order to fight for custody of their son's child, while Turner eventually moved into her own apartment on Pleasant Street in St. John's. In the years after Zacharys death, the Bagbys fought for reform, lobbying for changes to the Criminal Code of Canada to make it more difficult for people accused of murder to get bail. [2]:84, Upon becoming pregnant, Turner married a long-time boyfriend during Memorial University's 1981 winter recess. In a 2006 report, Winnipeg medical examiner Peter Markesteyn after an inquiry into Zachary's death harshly criticized the Child, Youth and Family Services and the Office of the Child and Youth Advocate, and concluded that Zachary should never have been in the care of his mother. You take it with you, but you move on, said David. A visitation will be from 4-7 p.m. Tuesday at the Elias Funeral Home. Subscribe here. KATHLEEN BAGLEY OBITUARY BAGLEY, Kathleen - Peacefully at Toronto Rehabilitation Institute on Sunday, June 19, 2011 at the age of 87. But David Bagby admits a question lingers. This website uses cookies to personalize your content (including ads), and allows us to analyze our traffic. Thats Kates position, David Bagby said of the notion they will one day see Andrew and Zachary. Continuing with this request will add an alert to the cemetery page and any new volunteers will have the opportunity to fulfill your request. A judge called Andrews murder a vicious crime, but did not consider Turner a risk to others. Turner subsequently made a total of 200 threatening phone calls to the man over the following month. Drag images here or select from your computer for Dr. Andrew David Bagby memorial. Andrew was found dead Nov. 5, 2001 in a state park just outside Latrobe, PA, where he was a resident in the local hospitals family medicine programme. A 2006 inquiry found serious shortcomings in how the province's social services system handled the case, suggesting that the judges, prosecutors, and child welfare agencies involved were more concerned with presuming Shirley's innocence than with protecting Zachary. 365 Bloor Street East, Toronto, Ontario, M4W 3L4. The Dear Zachary Story, "After Canadian mother killed herself and their only grandchild, U.S. couple started 10-year fight to change Canada's bail laws", "I had the moral right to kill Shirley Turner", "Shirley Turner, son found dead | CBC News", "Turner psychiatrist ordered to pay $10,000", "Ask the filmmaker a question about 'Dear Zachary', No need for Zachary Turner to die: death review, "Top 5 Good Movies You Never Want To See Again", "Nearly 2 decades after the murder of a physician and his son a legacy of love survives", "Dear Zachary: Donations in Andrew's Memory", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Murders_of_Andrew_Bagby_and_Zachary_Turner&oldid=1152317598. Visitation will be on Monday, January 31, 2022 at Sam B. Harvey Funeral Home from 6:00-8:00 p.m. Once David completed his engineering degree, the Bagbys were intent on starting a family. It was determined that Zachary Turner was rendered unconscious by the lorazepam and did not suffer. Instead, the American couple set their sights on Ottawa, lobbying ultimately with mixed results for Criminal Code changes to make it more difficult for people accused of serious crimes to be let out on bail. This is a carousel with slides. In early 2009, Kuenne sent out letters to every member of Parliament and senator offering to screen the film for them. Those who have worked through some of the grief try to instil in them there is some kind of life after loss. If you dont figure out how to live with it, youll kill yourself or waste away and die, Bagby said. Despite the distance between states, Turner and Bagby initially tried to maintain a long-distance relationship. Beloved husband of the late Shirley nee Schmidt. Obituary. Try again later. Bagby was twelve years and eight months younger than Turner. Please enter your email and password to sign in. A portion of the film also shows Kuenne meeting Zachary in Newfoundland in July 2003 to celebrate his first birthday, one month before his death; Shirley Turner is present during the visit, but Kuenne avoids her. Funeral services for David Bagby will be at 10 a.m. Wednesday at the Church of the Nazarene in Streator. By the summer of 2000, Turner had completed the requirements of her residency training and was qualified to practice medicine. Andrew Bagby was found dead in a state park just outside Latrobe, Pa., where he was a resident in the local hospitals family medicine program. He is survived by his wife Mary of Streator, children Carolyn (Davis) Davidson of Momence, IL, David R. (Denise) Bagby of Sawnnanoa, NC, Gerald (Wendy) Bagby of Streator, Michelle (Bob) Retoff of Streator, step-children Larry R. (Kathy) Ferguson of Dwight, IL and Sheryl (Terry) Wade of Atwood, TN. Search above to list available cemeteries. Enter The Bagbys were enraged and set out to change Canadas bail laws. IL 61364. But its also the emotional toll of attending trials and hearing gruesome stories like theirs played out in court over and over. He and his wife also participated in a heart-wrenching documentary produced by a close family friend, Kurt Kuenne. Most people do figure out how to at least keep on how to eat and breathe, at least. Andrew's parents, David and Kathleen Bagby, had moved from the United States to Canada in an attempt to gain custody of their grandson in the wake of their son's murder. They do still attend occasional meetings for a group supporting parents whove lost children, not necessarily through crime. And to find out that she had grown up to be a scholarship recipient was just too cool, David Bagby said. You just carry it.. Bagby, also a medical doctor, was killed in Pennsylvania park November 2001. It is believed she fed Zachary up to 30 tablets of Ativan, an anti-anxiety medication, before leaping off the end of a wharf into the ocean. There was no way to stop Andrews murder, but there was no way to walk away from Zacharys body and just say hmm, okay, move on," said David. They keep busy with friends, but when the thoughts come back, it weighs on them. The following day Doucet received a voicemail from a female caller who stated, "Dr. Turner died last night.". The staff at the hospital was welcoming and eager to teach, she wrote in an email. Keith Morrison reports. The man contacted the RNC on three occasions to complain about Turner's harassment, which both violated the terms of her bail and was considered grounds to lose custody of Zachary. Youre not in any position to do anything at first. The child, a boy, was born on 9 July 1982. "Dad" is Andrew Bagby, and although Newfoundlander Shirley Turner never stood trial for his murder, she was the key suspect and she drowned herself and their toddler son, Zachary, while battling extradition to the U.S. Andrew was the Bagbys' only son and Zachary, their only grandchild. David was born on July 2, 1957, in Joliet to David L. and Virginia L. (Miller) Bagby. Kate Bagby feels her son was too trusting to agree to meet Turner at the park the day he was killed. There, she shared the tablets between herself and little Zachary, tied him to her chest and jumped into the Atlantic Ocean. David was born on July 2, 1957, in Joliet to David L. and Virginia L. (Miller) Bagby.He is survived by his wife Denise (Gray) Bagby of Statesville, NC, daughter, Nicole Bagby of Nashville, TN, son, Nathaniel (Nate) Bagby of St. Louis, MO. You can always change this later in your Account settings. David Bagby, 85, of Streator, passed away Friday March 16, 2018 at Heritage Health in Streator. Tragedy first struck the Bagby family in November 2001. He expressed fear to police of "what Dr. Turner would do next. In 2010, Bill C-464 added a clause to the Criminal Code of Canada allowing bail to be denied if deemed necessary to protect a child, a change spurred by the Bagbys. In the early years, that included David writing a book, Dance With the Devil, about his sons and grandsons murders, and Kuennes documentary. I live in Sunnyvale, California. Make sure that the file is a photo. Meanwhile, Turner exhibited possessive behavior towards Bagby and harassed him over the phone. Funeral Home website by. That fall, a private members bill was introduced. Investigators interviewed Turner's shooting instructor, who explained that her handgun ejected live rounds during lessons; this was consistent with an unspent round recovered near Bagby's body. Read more about cookies here. Try again later. All rights reserved, Click here for information on becoming a member. Specifically: Murder Victim, https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/150768629/andrew-david-bagby. Ten years ago this month, he and his wife, Kate, both of California, lost their only grandchild, 13-month-old Zachary. He had been shot in the head, face, chest and twice in the buttocks. Shortly after his death, she fled to Canada and settled back in St. Johns. The RNC arrested Turner on 12 December, the same day extradition proceedings commenced against her. Turner insisted that she would earn "big money" after completing her post-residency training and would repay the savings for her children's post-secondary education. This account has been disabled. The final tragedy Murder of Zachary Turner. However, in the summer of 2000, Turner confessed to a relative that she had spent the baby bonuses on her own living expenses and doctoral education. [7] By Turner's account, she visited Bagby's residence in Syracuse seven times while he visited her once in Sac City. She has to veer away from the image and instead see him as a living being. This did not happen to me, Kate Bagby said. On 23 October 2009, Scott Andrews, then a Liberal MP from Newfoundland and Labrador, introduced Bill C-464, or "Zachary's Bill", which would change the Criminal Code of Canada to allow the courts to justify refusing bail to those accused of serious crimes in the name of protecting their children. We need each other, have each other to get through this.". Please consider joining us in this mission by becoming a member of the SaltWire Network and helping to make our communities better. But after a year of trying unsuccessfully to have a baby, Kate started using fertility drugs. The Bagbys still hold a bitterness when they talk about how they were failed by a legal system that let Turner out on bail and allowed her to retain custody of Zachary. Zachary's arrival pierced the hatred toward Turner that flooded the Bagbys' lives after they lost their only son. A patient of the clinic refused to return after an encounter with Turner. The memory of that visit is of a crying Zachary being taken away from them. Andrew Bagby, who never knew Turner was pregnant, was the father. This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Still grieving the death of their son, the Bagbys moved to Newfoundland and fought for custody of Zachary. They still have friends in the province, people Kate said they wouldnt have survived without. At the time, I got mad at them. Our support in your time of need does not end after the funeral services. STORY CONTINUES BELOW THESE SALTWIRE VIDEOS. VIDEO: Your daily elite-sports highlight package, Making Canada Better: Atlantic Canadians striving for change, 2023 SaltWire Network. To send flowers Verify and try again. Please select what you would like included for printing: Copy the text below and then paste that into your favorite email application. Unauthorized distribution, transmission or republication strictly prohibited. Authorities later determined his former lover, Dr. Shirley Turner, then pregnant with Bagbys child, killed him and fled to Canada, where she held dual citizenship. CORNER BROOK, N.L. Then they learned Turner, who had been apprehended in Newfoundland, was carrying their grandchild. First their son was murdered in Pennsylvania,, Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), First their son was murdered in Pennsylvania, then their grandson in Canada, Aerosmith announces farewell tour; will kick off in Philadelphia, Bryan Kohbergers former school district wont talk. When negative items would come up[,] she would change the topic to one of my failings. Zachary would be 15 now, the same age as their godson. That was 2003. Enter your phone number above to have directions sent via text. No consideration had been given to the childs welfare. Beginning in early 1999, Turner began dating Andrew David Bagby (25 September 1973 5 November 2001), an American medical student studying at Memorial University for his third year. The funeral service will be on Tuesday, February 1, 2022 at 2:00 p.m. at the Sam B. Harvey Funeral Home Chapel. When confronted with this evidence, Turner claimed that she met with Bagby at Keystone State Park but that he put the gun in his trunk. . Its levelled off to the point where it is much easier than initially that horror of it at the beginning is almost unbearable, Bagby answers, patiently. Subscribe here. Born July 31, 1932 in East Moline, IL, he was the son of J. Russell and Esther V. (Powers) Bagby, he married Virginia L. Miller July 26, 1952, she passed away April 26, 2008, he later married Mary Jane Thomas Rohwer October 10, 2009. [8] Turner was released from Her Majesty's Penitentiary's Clarenville Correctional Centre for Women, and was required to post CAD$75,000 bail, turn in her passports, pay weekly visits to the RNC, promise not to leave the area, and make no attempt to contact Bagby's family. After travelling the film-festival circuit the film was recognized in 2008 as one of the top five documentaries that year by the National Board of Review Kuenne and the Bagbys turned their attention to Parliament Hill. After Doucet broke up with Turner and moved elsewhere in Newfoundland, she began inundating him with phone calls. Turner claimed that she was pregnant by the man, but no evidence was found showing this to be the case. [20] The Film Vault included the film on their list of the "Top 5 Good Movies You Never Want to See Again". Turner's second husband claimed that she only used the belt as a threat in his interview. It provides students considering family practice who have completed their first or second year of medical school a summer scholarship to Latrobe to experience the rigors of family practice training. She was raised with three siblings in Wichita, Kansas, but moved to Newfoundland with her mother after her parents separated; the parents later divorced. Andrew Bagby, a gregarious family-practice resident at Latrobe, was found shot to death on Nov. 5, 2001, in Keystone State Park. can stop at any time. Funeral Home website by, Memorial Park Cemetery Rules and Regulations Guide, Annual Community Easter Sunrise Services 2022. But had Andrew not gone to medical school here and therefore never laid eyes on Turner, there are no guarantees he might have escaped his fate, Bagby said. Memorials may be directed to the American Kidney Association. No animated GIFs, photos with additional graphics (borders, embellishments. He was preceded in death by his parents Wheeles and Viola (Hopkins). We have set your language to 2023 National Post, a division of Postmedia Network Inc. All rights reserved. Setting up the scholarship in Andrews name was their way of keeping his memory alive and repaying the many kindnesses people in Western Pennsylvania extended to them. In mid-December, the Bagbys talked to The Western Star about the rerelease of the documentary, Dear Zachary: A Letter to a Son About His Father, by Kurt Kuenne. very frustrating. By the time she was charged with first-degree murder,she had returned to St. John's and gave birth to Zachary in July 2002. The inquiry concluded that Zachary's death had been preventable. Our 100 journalists strive to inform and improve our East Coast communities by delivering impartial, high-impact, local journalism that provokes thought and action. David and Kate Bagby recalled meeting Martha after they had befriended her father, John, while in Newfoundland. After the shooting, according to Kate, Turner called her claiming she was trying to reach Andrew. Dr. Carol Fox, medical director at Latrobe and a graduate of its family practice residency program, said scholarship recipients have gone on to participate in the family practice residency and two graduates now practice medicine there. After the initial shock of their second loss, coming so soon after the murder of their only son, the Bagbys decided to fight for a change in the law which might have meant their grandson could have lived. Lying on my shoulder and looking up at me as if to say, Yes Nan, Im here.. The evidence against Turner was compelling. Obituary. David and Kate Bagby know all about the unlikely power of love funneled through rage. The organizations that named it one of the best films of 2008 included: Time Out Chicago, The Oregonian, the Times Herald-Record, Slant Magazine, and WGN Radio Chicago. Turner's husband raised the child as a stay-at-home dad while Turner continued her studies. Plus, special edition NP Platformed and First Reading newsletters and virtual events. If you dont, youre dead. They also have Andrews friends, like Kuenne, who remain in their current lives and with whom they can talk about Andrew. This browser does not support getting your location. Need help? Meanwhile, after graduating from Memorial University in May 2000, Bagby landed a surgical residency at the State University of New York Upstate Medical University at Syracuse, New York. By the time Pennsylvania State Troopers charged her with first-degree murder and obtained a warrant for her arrest, Turner had fled back to Canada and re-settled in the St. Johns area. cemeteries found within miles of your location will be saved to your photo volunteer list. Except he picked up as this reporter was leaving a voicemail explaining the call from Newfoundland to Sunnyvale, Calif. A heartbreaking in memoriam for Bagby and his wife Kates grandchild, Zachary Andrew, has been published in The Telegram. David Bagby, 85, of Streator, passed away Friday March 16, 2018 at Heritage Health in Streator. He had been shot five times in the heaad, chest and buttocks. [21], The Chicago Film Critics Association nominated Dear Zachary for its Best Documentary award, and the Society of Professional Journalists presented the film with its Sigma Delta Chi Award for Best Documentary. They even had a fleeting fantasy to kill the Canadian judge who granted Turners release on bail. [2]:80 In 1980, Turner enrolled at Memorial University of Newfoundland in St. John's, seeking to embark on a medical career. View David R. Bagby's obituary, send flowers and find service dates or sign the guestbook. Rev.. Your email will not be used for any other purpose. After Zacharys death, the Bagbys began a quest to have Canadas bail laws changed. You are nearing the transfer limit for memorials managed by Find a Grave. Service is Sat 11am at 1st Baptist Church,. Both mother and baby drowned. Theres nothing you can do about it. The film is partly composed of home movies Kuenne and Bagby shot together as teenagers in California, and features interviews with Bagby's parents, extended family, friends, classmates, and colleagues, both before and after Zachary's murder. Had the case played out in the U.S. court system, they believe Zachary would still be with them. Kate and I could do nothing but cry, all day, every day, David Bagby said. Back at their California home, the Bagbys were devastated by the death of their only child. Creating stronger communities. Zacharys mother, Newfoundland native Dr. Shirley Turner, accused of murdering the babys father, was fighting extradition to the U.S. All these years later, David Bagbys voice still trembles with anger. I have a lot of documentary filmmaker friends and back when (Zachary was still alive) and they knew what was happening and what I was doing, they were saying, Man, this is the most insane story Ive ever heard. On 4 July 2003, Turner met a young man at a bar in St. John's. You may not upload any more photos to this memorial, This photo was not uploaded because this memorial already has 20 photos, This photo was not uploaded because you have already uploaded 5 photos to this memorial, This photo was not uploaded because this memorial already has 30 photos, This photo was not uploaded because you have already uploaded 15 photos to this memorial. One contains the remains of their son, Dr. Andrew Bagby. Andrew Bagby was a good man, loyal friend and the loving son of David and Kate Bagby. National Post ePaper, an electronic replica of the print edition to view on any device, share and comment on. He had been shot five times and the No. Click here if you wish to opt out and view the full site. Zachary was in his mothers care when he should not have been. Curated newsletters for curious minds. Markesteyn ultimately concluded that internal disagreements between caseworkers and managers weren't openly discussed and that an intervention by an outside office should have been made. [6] Turner gave birth to her second daughter on 8 March 1990, one year before she and her second husband separated. All Rights Reserved. Doucet said he was "disappointed" by the verdict, while David Bagby stated that he was happy with the precedent his case would be setting.

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